Curse

wilderness · Apr 06, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

It's all already been said, but I'm bored so I'll reiterate the point:

All LS removal will do is increase the cost of unneeded vanity items. All the essential items will be easier to attain thus making the game more fun.

Here's what happens:
LS goes.
Raw gold (platinum) drop rates increase.
Common drops increase (+ to raw gold increase)
More platinum on market.
Some high end vanity items inflate.
ALL essential materials are easier to attain.

So it's unfair that the influx of new gold would inflate certain skin values and make them unattainable to some? Unless you place every skin at crafter with fixed value, there will always be difficult to acquire/unattainable vanity items .

Gun Pierson · Apr 06, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There are some things that will never happen as the game is right now regardless of how much people ask about it:

- Full hero party
- LS removal
- Auction House
- More than 8 skills
- PvE skills in PvP
- Going back to old favor system
- Buy gold in GW Shop
etc...

I'm at the point I have to admit you're right on this one...

Full hero party would still be awesome for the fun factor but yesterday Gaile said that the devs followed the 7 heroes discussion thread and despite all the feedback, they're not going to make a change. I just wish we could see a detailed explenation why not. Just to understand.

About lootscaling: I think it's a nescessary evil when it comes to the fun factor of the game, but Anet likes the way the economy runs right now. One must learn other ways to farm, as they don't like the idea that someone can make ten times more money than someone else. They do give in a bit when it comes to festival items, ectos and dyes as they're not on the lootscale list. The game is not designed to store more than 1000k in the chest they say.
I don't think we would have had all that fuz if lootscaling was implemented from release, but was Anet ready back then, prolly not.

Gli · Apr 06, 2008, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

All LS removal will do is increase the cost of unneeded vanity items. All the essential items will be easier to attain thus making the game more fun.

You really want to make essential items easier to attain? How much easier does it have to get? /chatcommands to make them pop-up in your inventory? Or is that too much work typing?

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

And yet you can't see that LS removal is also stupid....

No WE can't. And no one on this forum has come up with one good reason why it shouldn't be removed.

vixro · Apr 06, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

/signed . I miss the old days where farming was actually rewarding.

Malice Black · Apr 06, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Before LS was great.

I had my mansion, you had your council flat. Proper job!

wilderness · Apr 06, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You really want to make essential items easier to attain? How much easier does it have to get? /chatcommands to make them pop-up in your inventory? Or is that too much work typing?

I'm not sure where I said I wanted essential items made easier to attain.. I was merely reiterating the main points for it's removal; I have no trouble making the money I need.

I don't mind which way it goes, but I don't really see any negative if it were removed.

cebalrai · Apr 06, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

No WE can't. And no one on this forum has come up with one good reason why it shouldn't be removed.

There have been tons of good reasons. You just have no problem with insane inflation, people HAVING to solo farm to make a buck (or else face massive relative poorness). Anet never intended for one character to be able to run areas (they intended 8) but you have no problem going against the basic intent of the developers.

And you have no problem with massive economic imbalance (and other things) that Anet highlighted in their original message when LS came into being.

The reasons are there, just in your opinion all the rotten side effects the game experienced without LS are perfectly healthy and fine for everyone.

cebalrai · Apr 06, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixro

/signed . I miss the old days where farming was actually rewarding.

If you can't find a way to make money, get better at the game. There's another thread where people are posting they're making 15k-20k per hour.

People that whine because they can't make 30k per hour, only 20k are simply impatient people. Take a deep breath.

Master Knightfall · Apr 06, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

I'm not sure where I said I wanted essential items made easier to attain.. I was merely reiterating the main points for it's removal; I have no trouble making the money I need.

I don't mind which way it goes, but I don't really see any negative if it were removed.

All throughout history the ignorant have always never "seen the negatives or the whys". That's why we have devs, people who know what they are doing and why. <grin>

Abedeus · Apr 06, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Too bad they can't tell us, why are they doing that or why LS is still in-game.

Gli · Apr 06, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Too bad they can't tell us, why are they doing that or why LS is still in-game.

They have told us, when it was introduced. I don't suppose anything changed so why should they tell us again?

Fay Vert · Apr 06, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

before LS.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10273477

prices exploded, gold was worth literally nothing, the rich could outbuy whole sectors of the market and actively contributed to the shit that the "economy" became.

the gap between the rich and poor reached a point where the rich could (thanks to the stupid amounts of money they had) jack up the prices on NPC merchants to the point where normal players HAD to farm to be able to afford BASIC stuff.

this was back in the days when the "average" player had 20k to their name....it was retarded.

This it NOT TRUE

When the game was new, or even a chapter, the prices of the rare skins was astronimical for sure, just like it is today, that will always be true whatever the state of the economy because of the rarity (perceived or real) of the desirable items. But inthe two years before loot scaling, prices DECLINED, to a point just before loot scaling where prices were lower than ever before. With HM about to flood the market with lots of high end skills, the loot nerf was totally unneccesary and counter productive. The loot nerf made almost zero difference to the economy (once they corrected the biggest problems of the blunder by adding the excemption list), but what it did do was to dictate the way you now have to play the game. Now you have to repeat the boring aspects of the game, now you have to title grind for character advancement, now you have little choice in the way you play.

If the loot nerf was removed, prices wont increase, they can't increase simply because the supply of most items far out-strips demand. If prices reverted to as they were before the nerf, most would not notice a difference, probably the only thing that would change is that ectos prices would rise as other forms of farming would offer choice and variety to the game of making cash. Ectos are a unique item in GW as they are used as player currency, the only thing that really matters about ectos is not hte price but the stability of the price, ANet messed with that a lot when the brough in the loot nerf, I (and I'm not alone) believe that the price of ectos is artificially maintained by ANet anywhat now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There are some things that will never happen as the game is right now regardless of how much people ask about it:

- Full hero party
- LS removal
- Auction House
- More than 8 skills
- PvE skills in PvP
- Going back to old favor system
- Buy gold in GW Shop
etc...

Design, resources, time, politics...

Whatever the reason is, they'll just never happen as the game is right now. Please understand that.

You (and others) make that list as a strawman, pretending that the majority want these things, fact is, for most of those other things only a very small minority want them, put up a poll on PvE skills in PvE, buying gold, >8 skills, the list is a joke and you know it, so lets not attempt to side track this debate with a load of irrelevent flim flam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

And your insult fails. We "fanboys" arent the ones whining about LS. So you calling us the biggest whiners is pathetic.

You sir are utter fail, I was complaining about the pro-nerf lobby resorting to insults as they had completely run out of reason.

There are no reasons to keep the nerf, not a single one, lots of rubbish spouted about a ruined economy, bots, inflation, enforced grind, and ALL the evidence shows that this is all incorrect.

MithranArkanere · Apr 06, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Too bad they can't tell us, why are they doing that or why LS is still in-game.

Again, LS was not introduced due solely to bots.

It was introduced due to a behavior on acquiring wealth that wast not supposed to exist.

Bots fed on that flaw of the system. But even if you remove bots, humans can also behave like bots.

LS was added to slow that that "zone-kill-pick-zone-sell-rezone-repeat" behavior.

Now we get some less drops in some places, even if you do not consider drop rates. But you must also understand that we have inscriptions. With inscriptions, you do not need 10000 drops to get one perfect one, you just need 25..500 depending on skin.

Now you don't need tons of gold to get 10 obsidian sets, one of each type.

You get one, and if you want to change anything, you get Perfect kits and safely salvage and replace any rune and insignia you want.

As the game is right now, LS is a must that matches the system.
Remember that this is GW, we have grind added, and it's still a little splinter in the side for some people, but not so much as other games.

Also remember that not all professions are equally suited for farming, and not everyone has time to have and play with 10 characters.

Cab Tastic · Apr 06, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

There have been tons of good reasons. You just have no problem with insane inflation, people HAVING to solo farm to make a buck (or else face massive relative poorness). Anet never intended for one character to be able to run areas (they intended 8) but you have no problem going against the basic intent of the developers.

And you have no problem with massive economic imbalance (and other things) that Anet highlighted in their original message when LS came into being.

The reasons are there, just in your opinion all the rotten side effects the game experienced without LS are perfectly healthy and fine for everyone.

insane inflation? Before LS the price of everything had been falling steadily. This is called deflation.

Having to Solo farm? If LS was removed you would see no difference if you run with full parties. SOLO farming is an additionl OPTION you have. But its not totally about solo farming. You could run a group of 6 in and 8 man area to get a greater drop rate. I did this before HM. In effect creating my own version of HM.

And please don't bring up the Anet message about LS. Ive said many times they had no cluse what they were doing when they implemented this thing. Hence the rapid patching of it days later.

Someone please give a negative effect of removing LS from the game. There must be one out there somewhere!

Solas · Apr 06, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

3)its fine the way it is
We survived a year with it so its not that bad. i didnt mind it

MithranArkanere · Apr 06, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

insane inflation? Before LS the price of everything had been falling steadily. This is called deflation.

Having to Solo farm? If LS was removed you would see no difference if you run with full parties. SOLO farming is an additionl OPTION you have. But its not totally about solo farming. You could run a group of 6 in and 8 man area to get a greater drop rate. I did this before HM. In effect creating my own version of HM.

And please don't bring up the Anet message about LS. Ive said many times they had no cluse what they were doing when they implemented this thing. Hence the rapid patching of it days later.

Someone please give a negative effect of removing LS from the game. There must be one out there somewhere!

There's no need to.
You gave us the reason. You just don't see it.

Remember: all the truth is in Queens lyrics: "Just open your eyes and see" (from Bohemian Rhapsody)

Fay Vert · Apr 06, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

3)its fine the way it is
We survived a year with it so its not that bad. i didnt mind it

Unfortunately, many of my friends didn't, and I know others that would state the same. The loot nerf drove a lot of people away from the game. To many, GW became a boring joke, they just left. Some of us are still trying to get ANet to change their minds on this dreadful decission, we still like the game, but not nearly as much as before.

cebalrai · Apr 06, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

There are no reasons to keep the nerf, not a single one, lots of rubbish spouted about a ruined economy, bots, inflation, enforced grind, and ALL the evidence shows that this is all incorrect.

All the evidence? It's just your OPINION that the "evidence" isn't good enough. For others it is. And you're just one schlep with an opinion just like everyone else. Some folks (such as Anet developers) are of the opinion that the reasons to keep LS are good enough.

Your rant that your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, is illogical bunk. And that's what it boils down to - opinion. Your righteousness makes you look really bad. You are utterly confused.

Besides, Anet said that solo farming was nerfed because it was a phenomenon that was never supposed to exist. So no mater what you say, EVER, about economy, etc, this FACT will CUT RIGHT THROUGH any argument you or anyone else makes for the removal of loot scaling.

EVER.

Phineas · Apr 06, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I just emptied 'Flame Temple Corridor' a few times soloing on my ranger in Normal Mode and found that over 90% of kills dropped either gold (money) or a white item, so I wonder if LS affects every map? Admittedly, it is a small map, but still I was pleasantly surprised. This was excluding the party drops that we are currently getting.